Heyho,

savi has suggested some changes, not sure if also for confetti. But before we come to this, the

existing rules so far:
takeout = you kick a ball of other player (that was in points area) into out.
Own-takeout= you kick your ball against another of your own balls which goes into out then

I've always interpreted these rules like that: It has to be direct kicks/contacts which means:
for takeout:
Blue player kicks blue ball 1:
a) blue ball 1 touches red ball 1. red ball 1 goes out. That's a takeout.
b) blue ball 1 touches blue ball 2, blue ball 2 touches red ball 1, red ball 1 goes into out. No takeout because no direct contact.
c) blue ball 1 touches red ball 1, red ball 1 touches red ball 2, red ball 2 goes into out. No takeout because no direct contact.

This is the same for own-takeouts.
Only own-takeout, when blue ball 1 touches blue ball 2 and blue ball 2 goes into out (blue ball 2 may touch other balls and bring them into out too). this is just 1 own-takeout.

Savi's suggestions:

"Your shot -> afterwards is an opponents ball out that was not out before? -> TO. Is any of your own balls out that was not out before? Own takeout"
So this includes indirect contacts, e.g. case b) and c) above are TOs then.

Arguments for savi's idea:
Easy to judge/count.

Arguments for rule above:
- There are awards for most TOs. The awards should go to players who (most mostly) intentionally did a takeout. At our niveau in most cases only direct contacts are intentional.
-> argument against: indirect contacts (b)/c)) can be intentional anyway.
-> argument against: ofc they can be intentional but mostly not. To make a drastic example, if you just powershot into mid with full force and randomly many balls fly out, then you get randomly takeouts/ownTos.
ofc in each game luck/random can influence game stats but imo it would be better to give award to precise takeout-players than to players who just (always) full power into bunch of balls and (luckily) take some balls out.

Details: In any case we agree, that the ball that was kicked (in example blue ball 1) itself can be a TO or OwnTO, right?

Just add your thoughts.

after noone gave a clear opinion, I've thought we do it like this:

We take both ideas.
For own-takeouts we completelly follow savi's idea because players who (uncontrolled) push their balls into a bunch of balls may get this "punish"-award for most-own-Takeouts. Ofc players might have bad luck and get own-Takeouts but if you can aim precisely, you don't have bad luck ;), so I guess it is fair to say: if after your kick one or more of your balls are into out, then it is 1,2,3... own-Takeouts.

For takeouts, there are 2 different kind now.
1.) "precise"/direct takeouts:
This will include each case from previous thread (a-c), so:
a) blue ball 1 touches red ball 1. red ball 1 goes out (no matter if it touches other balls before going out).
b) blue ball 1 touches blue ball 2, blue ball 2 touches red ball 1, red ball 1 goes into out.
c) blue ball 1 touches red ball 1, red ball 1 touches red ball 2, red ball 2 goes into out.

after all I think, skilled players can do that by purpose (takeouts per direct or 1 more contact). Anything more (takeouts via 3 contacts: e.g. blueball touches redball 1, redball 1 touches redball 2, redball 2 touches redball 3, only redball 3 goes into out) can still be purpose but really highly unprobable.
Of course case a)-c) can happen several times in 1 kick. E.g. blue ball 1 touches redball 1, redball 1 touches redball 2 and redball 3, all these 3 redball goes into out -> 3 "precise" takeouts, because for redball 1 it is case a), for the others it is case c).
This detailed rule is because the player with most precise takeouts after the season gets an award, so I think it is ok, to just count takeouts here which are most probably purposed. (ofc you still can have just luck in some cases).

2.) "normal" takeouts:
there will be no award for them. these are just like savi's idea. every opponent ball which is out after the kick count as takeout.